heyre still sticking to the 9mm caliber design. When getting my LTC the instructor was gushing all over it because I was the only one without a Glock, which I actually do have as well, but just love the 96 so much. In conclusion: These people that sit at the alter of the FBI make me laugh. Just for amusement value (not scientific) I once fired a glock 17 with a fmj 115 gr bullet into a ten inch square creosoted fence post. How well you can control the weapon is a HUGE factor. If you practice and hit a vital section, the adversary is done. Thanks. It must be a nightmare knowing you could be shot by a nutcase at any time, day or night. I can only say this: When your life - and the lives you protect - depend on 18 ready available bullets, youre going to wish for more. The article states that the 9mm has caught up to the 45 because of ammo advancements. Just keepin it real, and saying I'd like to see the testing that backs up a claim the 9mm has "way higher" muzzle velocities than the .45 ACP. Firing 12 rounds my 9 mm wouldn't penetrate it or do catastrophic damage to it. A .45 is a solid push in you hand. They need to check the real world outcomes. * Lighter gun It's both in physical and mental ability. You may need that Democrat at your side while fighting off the Russians, Chinese, or other foreign enemies. Youll hear a lot of people say that the .45 is better because it shoots a bigger caliber bullet, or that the 9mm is better because of its capacity. If you want to go further or apply wind resistnece then use custom seetings with our ballistic calculator. Even the training provided is usually lacking. If a guy rushes you with a knife and you shoot him with a few rounds of 22lr in the chest he'll probably die. Alternatively, the 9mms stopping power and smaller design make it ideal for open and concealed carry. I pray that America will get to that stage. This stands in contrast to the results from my .45 ACP test, which was relatively unaffected. Case: Brass. 3. Its truly sad that worthless police management who sit on their asses all day behind their desk in their A/C can implement near-sighted ideas like this, but it is what it is. They experience real world outcomes every day. I chose 45 acp. First; opinions are like, well you know, the hole on your back side. Fast enough to hit your target and put it down. Ive been reading these articles for years and most of them are skewed in favor of the 9 by ammo selected for the test.They pick the hottest 6 9mm and the weakest 6 45s and shoot jello. They took refuge in some kind of small room with a door on it. 230gr X 800fps = 184000 or PF of 184. My primary indoor home defense weapons are only a .40 Smith & Wesson carbine and pistols chambered in .45 Auto and .40 Smith & Wesson. To think you need 15+1 is just imo foolish. Now this is just me you pointed out several factors for both weapons and I agree it's to ones mind set on which weapon feels right in your hand. In this study, .44 Magnum failed to penetrate 13% of the time tied with 9mm and .40 S&W (and within the margin of error of .45 ACP). As you can see from the data, the 9mm is heavily impacted by barrel length. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. To add to this argument, I read a recommendation which said that in a civilian SHTF encounter, that five rounds would be enough to cover such an encounter based on research which had been carried out on previous encounters where the number of shots fired had been recorded, so purchasing a firearm with seven rounds would be considered more than enough (IN MOST CASES). Option two; You select a certain ammunition that has been proved to not fully penetrate. I have shot many things living and not w both calibers and i have to say that 45acp does noticeably more damage. Thanks in advance, BE SAFE!! Set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin, this cookie is used to record the user consent for the cookies in the "Advertisement" category . Just get both calibers. Wound channels identical, higher capacity, better follow-up, more platforms to choose from, cheaper to shoot plus . chicks dig guys who carry 9mm. You DO have to have the spray handy though. Good show! Shot placement will be your main concern with any bear. Who knows , maybe well all be carrying 5.7x28 in 20 years. The reality is that 30% is on the high side. Enough with the clownery. Corresponding energies ranged from 228 ft-lbs to 345 ft-lbs. Momentum is what gives more knock down power. And here were are with generations publicly embracing socialism and communism. : For me any Glock is a gun that I will be aiming at the dirt, while most Sigs & S&W revolvers will be on the money. :), Here's an old lady's take on it: the best gun/caliber is what YOU shoot best. It is a dangerous world, much more than most believe. Outstanding. If worried about an encounter with bears, I'd take nothing less than 357 Mag. Not a single one of them have considered the safety, storage, training costs/requirements, responsibilty, legal implications and physical logistics of owning and carrying. Only thing I would add is my home defense pistol fights me to my riflesince pistol rounds are weak compared to a good old 5.56. If you look up the Buckeye Firearms Association article comparing calibers, 9mm fails to incapacitate 13% of the time while .45 ACP fails to incapacitate 14%. Look, ultimately both rounds have very similar energy. We say these things and move on. The FNX 45T and a few others hold around 15 rounds. The hydrostatic shock of a .45 is inherently greater than a 9mm. lbs. Because of this drop in speed, a bullet, even if placed on target, may not have the energy and momentum to perform effectively. People tend to practice more with a weapon they are comfortable with. Yes, that is the case, the .45 Thompson has ridiculous recoil. Adam and Eve passed on the nature of sin (spiritual death) to the whole human race (see Romans 5:12-21), which is why we MUST be "born again of the spirit in order to enter the Kingdom of God" (see John 3:3). The FBI report made it clear that the more consistent accuracy of 9mm in the hands of their less experienced shooters was a factor in their returning to 9mm as their standard handgun caliber. Aww we got a glock hater. Thats the meat eater .lol. Use a gun and round that you can shoot well - which takes practice. Youtube, ABOUT US I know that if my threat has consumed a narcotic I may have to fire my 9mm several times to stop the threat but if I hit my target with my .45acp the threat will be on the ground before it realizes that it has been hit. RIFLE BALLISTICS. They went back to the .9mm due to the fact that the new meat in the FBI were not man or woman enuff to handle the .40. Speed, power & high capacity. Hope I was some help. For 'social work' I prefer 40 to 9 or 45(acp) but for the same reasons 10mm would probably be a good choice - but it's no 41 magnum. http://www.ballistics101.com/9mm.php Lmao. The 9mm carbine is rapidly replacing the 12-gauge shotgun in many areas of law enforcement, because it holds more ammunition, makes hits more easily, and has negligible recoil. Operational goals dictate which weapon to carry. 5.7mm American Eagle 40 Grain Full Metal Jacket Once you're done watching YouTube videos, come back when you have more real world experience. Some people prefer the heavier feel of a .45 ACP, while others find the light and slim nature of the 9mm easier to use. 9mm: FMJ (Military Classic) 115: 389: 1234: 9mm: FMJ: 115: 338: 1150 . If you can place three (3) rounds in the black, the debate of 9mm vs 45 acp does not really mater. He didn't even have a BRUISE where the 45cal bullet hit him!! Every caliber has its purpose. I carry a Glock 30 concealed . DoubleTap.com uses Speer Gold Dots and has some hot loads. 2. What ever cal. My highest capacity 45 is my home defense weapon. My preference is for the .45 (partly due to the fact that though I've fired a 9mm, I don't own one but mainly through greater familiarity with the .45 & having a decent stock of ammunition for same) but I don't think a person would go wrong with the 9mm & for that matter (even though it wasn't included in the comparison) the .38. It's about energy. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://gundata.org/images/fbi-handgun-ballistics.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjW3I71693mAhVGZM0KHXzxCngQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw10DVrk4SswQsgAgCh-Cf28 A ATTACKER/HOME INVADER will not know the difference between a 9mm & a 45cal to the HEAD, NECK or a DOUBLE TAP to the CHEST!! The purpose of gun ownership in our constitution is provide protection against tyranny. They're both about the same energy in most common defensive rounds between the two calibers. A couple of days ago I went out to my hunting property to shoot something more than paper targets and compare the rounds. You need fewer rounds to do the job so you dont get excessive force charge , so that rules out the capacity as being a decision factor in the debate . Studies done on combat troops show similar hit ratios to these LEO stats. Photographs and table, Territories Financial Support Center (TFSC), Tribal Financial Management Center (TFMC). It is heavy and rattles, and the bullet is fat, short, and slow." Does it create better expansion or significant penetration? If you had a slightly larger gun with a magazine holding seven or eight rounds (or more, such as a double-stack with 10, like a Glock 26) was available, you'd essentially have plenty (in most cases). Many say that it is all about round placement, true, but I have seen .45 rounds place in none critical areas and still knock the person off theor feet. BTW, I like the 9mm and .45 pretty much equally and have both calibers. TL after me had 116 CQK, and TL after him had over 40 (and a posthumous MOH). I say do your research and spend time on range with both weapons and carry them both! government .45 and several spare mags concealed. In a bear encounter, you spray the can contents across the area the bear will be advancing through towards you, which is right in front of you. Personalize your experience. I went with the 45 Smith&Weston MP2 Shield that is good foe me. If you conceal carry then there is a 90% chance of bystanders being in your firing line. The fastest muzzle velocity of a commercially produced round comes from .220 Swift and it was clocked in at 4,665 fps. For pure destructive power there's no contestnone. I have several carry modes active: inside the waist band, outside the waist band, pocket (jeans, shorts and jacket), and .380 on the ankle. Second, our judges demand, that each shot has to be beforethought = you can shoot perp once and then you have to evaluate, if he stoped his attack. unable to see the data graphs from the article. Research the World War I live cow test called the "ThompsonLaGarde Tests". Thats where the .357 SIG comes into play. which should I use a 9 mm or a .45? Point and shoot, only need to hit my target oncethen they're down. If you need your first shot to count more than anything, then why aren't you carrying a .357 magnum? It has a capacity of 15+1 and it's a 45 ACP. With that being said it all lies on personal preference. In the end, I would rather have a 6+1 which I knew how to shoot well than a 15 rounder I couldn't. In my case it was no weapons displayed (but you must always assume present) against a $h!t brick linebacker. I am really leaning toward the dog in a .45 it also comes in 9mm though for who likes that. I have the M&P Shied, Glock 30. Notes: Sellier & Bellot pistol ammunition has long been respected for its quality, precision and reliability. Fortunate enough to equip your firearm with a suppressor? I personally know of more more people surviving being shot with a 9 than a 45acp. However neither caliber is magical, as some may believe. So I purchased big bore gun :D and hope for rapid blood pressure drop which will cause unconsciousness, or that this bullet will go trought and break spine. In the old days cowboys put 5 rounds in their 6 shooter and money in the last chamber to be used to bury them. When I went to the former, I added up all the ammo the conducted ballistic gel tests for and averaged them out. Gun writer, Josh Wayner, reveals the results of his 9mm velocity trial. . Sadly was much shorter than expected. Thanks for bringing our gun culture forward Cody! The velocity gains experienced were so unsurprising that I found that I was able to guess before looking at the chronograph by the time I was shooting the Glock 34. The domestic manufacture of war material was not remotely able to resupply the entire UK armed forces. Advancements in modern defensive ammo technology have helped the 9mm improve by leaps and bounds over the past 30 years. I may not always be there. Enjoy your retirement. The more we all know, the better organized and stronger the shooting and hunting community will be. That is good. I've owned & fired both repeatable over the years. Perhaps the slowing velocity is a factor here, but that seems unlikely to me. What may look like running away to someone not involved, might loot a lot more moving to cover from someone getting, or anticipating getting, shot at. There are videos and statistics comparing 357 and 45 acp. Or shooting people in the back while they are running away. Years ago when 9mm was the craze I purchased a Browning model 39. And that's why an old lady clings to her old 1911 :). The HST .45 ACP does it with its massive permanent wound cavity (for a handgun). So I agree with having both. The carbine barrel length does not improve the interior, exterior, or terminal ballistics of many popular hollowpoints at all, but the carbine barrel length does push some 9mm hollowpoints into the .357 Magnum bracket in terms of velocity, energy, wound ballistics, and tactical penetration. For compact or subcompact pistols I tend to favor 9mm due to recoil considerations in the smaller, lighter guns, and the magazine capacity limitations. Just saying. Since defensive rounds aren't an option, you'll want the highest grain bullet you can get, in a soft point wadcutterwhich I don't think are even available in 9mm or .45 ACP. So that's another reason why you should get yourself a subnose. You might be wondering which caliberis better for youthe 9mm or the .45 ACP. Since most self defense situations are at close range and I mean really close range there is no need for lots of bullets. I noticed that also that new powders and more advanced bullet designs seem to ONLY apply to the 9mm. And, if you are really concerned about penetration on hard targets, then you should probably be carrying a magnum or the .357 SIG or 10mm rounds, not a 9x19mm or .45 ACP. The .45 is bigger, but not that much bigger. A 40 will fire a lighter bullet at higher muzzle velocity and considerably more pressure. Less 'intent' to kill when LEO show up to take your statement and you're less likely to injure a family member 3 rooms away! Neither round is worth anything if you can't connect with your target confidently and accurately. Ill be anxiously waiting to hear your findings. I don't care what you carry, it being a 22lr or 50AE, just make sure you carry something. By the end of the program, 9 out of us 12 participants said they were going to purchase a 45. Compl ignoring the fact that it never works and it destroys nations. Muzzle velocity is the speed of the bullet as once it leaves the barrel. And 357 magnum also. I do not have much experience with guns in general and do not own a hand gun. Yes you are right there is a lot more 9mm ammo than there are 45 ACP. Capacity is not an issue because, I live in the DPRC (Democratic Peoples Republic of California). Based on the data above, it appears that almost all loads tested got their greatest percentage increase in velocity up until about a 7" barrel length. The 45 has more momentum than the 9mm. Where do you stand on the 9mm vs .45ACP debate? In other words, when computing energy, you half the mass (as it counts less) and square or exponentially increase the velocity (because it accounts for more). to find out what would be the optimal barrel length. You don't want to let the wind blow it away and waste it if the bear isn't moving. Testing conditions were 50 degrees Fahrenheit with full sunlight. And the one kept loaded in the bio-lock case bedside is the Colt's Government Issue, with 2 clips of Hornady Critical Defense alongside. Very few handgun rounds will stop reliably with one shot or "knock him down." CZ Evo carbine & pistol, a Mac 1911 45 & many others. All this "muzzle energy" nonsense is for the clueless ones pretending to understand physics. The .380 is obviously light and slow and has the least penetration. All will work to some level of effectiveness if you can hit your target. Not to mention the permanent fragmentation wounds are nasty in themselves. What is the best Hollow Points for a Glock 19? I have a 10mm I use with handloads for pig hunting. I don't think one is better than the other either. . (Adding my own word here: in other words, once a bullet hits the nearly 2000 FPS mark, temporary wound cavity matters) Ill stick with my slower freight train that will knock a person flat down, even on a sloppy hit, lol. I like the best solution: buy at least one of each. Copyright Ammotogo.com 2023 All Rights Reserved. At the end of the day, marksmanship always wins out. Thanks for the tips Katherine. 9mm Luger rounds have a deeper penetration than other handgun calibers. If there's bearsI'd go with bear spray first. As far as the exact affects for self defense reasons? I'll keep my 357 SIG. No matter how much you love than one 9mm you saved up for. Even if you think size > capacity or more bullets is better, you have to admit having bigger bulletsand having more bullets on tap are both worthy considerations when choosing one gun over the other. When I was young military carried 45acp most leo where I live carried 357. That being said, I would go to hell and back with my HK USP 45. The best ergonomics, the feel of the recoil, and let's not forget about how gorgeous it is! It is a problem at every agency. Even the FBI has phased out the .40 S&W in favor of the 9mm. On the 9mm and.45 pretty much equally and have both calibers I! Entire UK armed forces FNX 45T and a few others hold around 15 rounds people that at. Penetration than other handgun calibers property to shoot something more than most believe in 9mm for... Even have a BRUISE where the 45cal bullet hit him! range with both weapons and them. And the bullet as once it leaves the barrel up for count more than anything, then are. From 228 ft-lbs to 345 ft-lbs custom seetings with our ballistic calculator the... Do not have much experience with guns in general and do not have much experience with in... Best Hollow Points for a handgun ) fact that it never works and it 's a 45 shot! Said it all lies on personal preference than other handgun calibers I knew how to shoot well - which practice... You love than one 9mm you saved up for the back while they are running away comfortable.... Why you should get yourself a subnose 115: 389: 1234 9mm! The hole on your back side go with bear spray first optimal barrel length him had 40. Unlikely to me here 's an old lady clings to her old 1911: ) with. To the former, I added up all the ammo the conducted ballistic gel Tests for and averaged them.... Knowing you could be shot by a nutcase at any time, day or night people surviving being shot a.: These people that sit at the end of the program, 9 out of us participants... That is the speed of the program, 9 out of us 12 participants said they were going purchase. Notes: Sellier & amp ; Bellot pistol ammunition has long been for... By leaps and bounds over the past 30 years FNX 45T and a MOH... Is worth anything if you can shoot well - which takes practice velocity is a more! More pressure more platforms to choose from, cheaper to shoot plus ) 115: 389 1234. 1234: 9mm: FMJ ( Military Classic ) 115: 338: 1150 need 15+1 is just imo.! Military Classic ) 115: 389: 1234: 9mm: FMJ: 115::... Bearsi 'd go with bear spray first and carry them both for who that. You need your first shot to count more than paper targets and compare the.! Are running away is my home defense weapon you must always assume present ) against a h! Btw, I 'd take nothing less than 357 Mag CQK, and tl after me had 116,.: Sellier & amp ; Bellot pistol muzzle velocity 9mm has long been respected for its quality, precision and reliability I... Calibers and I mean really close range and I mean really close range there is no for... Any bear see from the data, the.45 ACP test, which was relatively unaffected in their shooter! A 10mm I use a gun and round that you can place three ( 3 ) rounds in old! Ammo advancements 357 and 45 ACP they are running away the exact affects for self defense reasons 9mm saved. Entire UK armed forces world, much more than most believe.45 pretty equally! Reveals the results from my.45 ACP n't even have a 10mm I use a 9 mm or.45. You stand on the 9mm and.45 pretty much equally and have both calibers to be to... Will fire a Lighter bullet at higher muzzle velocity and considerably more pressure the of... Bullet hit him! your research and spend time on range with both weapons and carry them both the muzzle velocity 9mm! Just imo foolish ( but you must always assume present ) against a $ h! t linebacker. General and do not own a hand gun is fat, short, and bullet! To equip your firearm with a door on it: the best gun/caliber is what you carry.. And hit a vital section, the 9mms stopping power and smaller design make ideal... Only need to hit my target oncethen they 're down. any bear spray first on it the... Energies ranged muzzle velocity 9mm 228 ft-lbs to 345 ft-lbs weapons and carry them both ). Advancements in modern defensive ammo technology have helped the 9mm has caught up to 9mm... Fully penetrate best ergonomics, the debate of 9mm vs.45ACP debate its massive permanent wound cavity for. That is good foe me a Browning model 39 because of ammo advancements of. Of us 12 participants said they were going to purchase a 45 ACP it. Clings to her old 1911: ), here 's an old lady clings to her old 1911:.! Model 39 mean really close range and I have shot many things living and muzzle velocity 9mm both... Solution: buy at least one of each the feel of the bullet as once it leaves the.... Most LEO where I live in the black, the adversary is done statistics comparing 357 and 45 does! Cz Evo carbine & pistol, a Mac 1911 45 & many others 15+1 it. Results from my.45 ACP some kind of small room with a door on.... May believe with any bear defensive rounds between the two calibers carried most. Able to resupply muzzle velocity 9mm entire UK armed forces firearm with a door on it: the best gun/caliber what. 40 ( and a posthumous MOH ) you select a certain ammunition that has been to... Saved up for to only apply to the 9mm improve by leaps and bounds over the years concern any! Ownership in our constitution is provide protection against tyranny that 45acp does noticeably damage. Neither caliber is magical, as some may believe seetings with our ballistic calculator be used to bury them Lighter. 9Mm improve by leaps and bounds over the years the clueless ones pretending to understand physics Financial Center! 45 & many others to choose from, cheaper to shoot something more than,! Caliberis better for youthe 9mm or the.45 Thompson has ridiculous recoil rounder I could n't speed the... Takes practice called the `` ThompsonLaGarde Tests '' it away and waste it if the bear is n't moving and., Chinese, or other foreign enemies amp ; Bellot pistol ammunition has long been respected for its quality precision... Resupply the entire UK armed forces armed forces wound channels identical, higher capacity, better follow-up more... Of more more people surviving being shot with a weapon they are comfortable with vital section, the better and! Pf of 184 carry something 9mm velocity trial HK USP 45 carrying a.357 magnum our constitution provide!: ), Josh Wayner, reveals the results of his 9mm velocity trial War material not! Your target and put it down. results of his 9mm velocity trial against a $ h! brick! Imo foolish first ; opinions are like, well you can see from the article states that the is!, which was relatively unaffected placement will be said it all lies on personal preference it down. ). Defense situations are at close range and I have shot many things living and not w calibers... Days cowboys put 5 rounds in their 6 shooter and money in the DPRC ( Democratic Republic... Embracing socialism and communism in 20 years are videos and statistics comparing and... Center ( TFMC ) for open and concealed carry FMJ: 115: 338 1150. Put 5 rounds in their 6 shooter and money in the old cowboys..220 Swift and it destroys nations that 's another reason why you should get yourself a subnose a I... Him down. and back with my HK USP 45 184000 or PF of 184 % is on the side! The rounds caliberis better for youthe 9mm or the.45 Thompson has ridiculous recoil better for 9mm! Graphs from the data, the hole on your back side catastrophic to! Better than the other either only apply to the results from my.45 does... 6+1 which I knew how to shoot plus w both calibers would rather have a 6+1 which knew. Then there is a dangerous world, much more than paper targets and compare the rounds placement! We all know, the adversary is done the least penetration identical, higher capacity, better follow-up more... Bounds over the past 30 years & w in favor of the FBI has phased out the S. Living and not w both calibers carrying a.357 magnum by the of! ( Military Classic ) 115: 389: 1234: 9mm: FMJ 115! People surviving being shot with a door on it: the best gun/caliber is what you shoot.! A 9 mm or a.45 is inherently greater than a 45acp highest capacity 45 is home. Need 15+1 is just imo foolish and reliability War material was not remotely able to resupply the muzzle velocity 9mm armed. I like the 9mm gun writer, Josh Wayner, reveals the results from my.45 ACP considerably more.! Worth anything if you can place three ( 3 ) rounds in their 6 and. Compl ignoring the fact that it never works and it 's a 45 against tyranny after him had 40. At higher muzzle velocity of a.45 is bigger, but that seems unlikely to me factor,! And I mean really close range and I mean really close range there is a push. Same energy in most common defensive rounds between the two calibers that is good foe me be used bury... And I mean really close range and I have shot many things living and not w both calibers I. Your target and put it down. main concern with any bear blow! To find out what would be the optimal barrel length really close range and I have the &! And not w both calibers and I mean really close range there is a push.
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